Cocksuckers
and Things:
THE ROLLING STONES
1972
'It's One Of Those'
TOUR DE DEBAUCHEE
(video) Cocksuckers and Things: Robert Frank's Interview The Rolling Stones 'It's One Of Those'
Les Rolling Stones ont rendu l'Amérique les coup-experts
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Durex, Digress, Rock-amps 'n' Regal
(Dr. sex)
Of all the tours the Rolling Stones have made across North America, the 1972 tour is still remembered as the most attractive, most provoked, most bang musical retentive five from London ever performed.
I was fortunate enough to see this juicy juggernaut when it made its stop in Vancouver on Saturday, June 3rd, 1972. As Stones expert Harold Jolson has written elsewhere… "The fabled summer 1972 tour through the U.S. and Canada is revered by Stones fans worldwide as arguably the band's greatest ever, and it remains enshrined in the annals of rock lore and popular imagination as the masterpiece speedboat of indoor triumph, outdoor maelstrom, and backstage debauch. In powerful testament to this enduring sway, vast quantities of audio recordings, books, magazines, photographs, films, videos, and other memorabilia have since issued through licit and sub-licit channels to keep the coveted sights and sounds of the Stones Touring Party alive, rolling, and fresh to this very day."Cocksucker Blues is one of those enduring sub-licit channels which not only celebrates the fore, middle and background of this tour, but which also presents itself as one of the very best rock tour movies ever made, and never seen.Have You Heard About …
The Rolling Stones 'It's One Of Those'
directed by Robert Frank
After having the debacle of Allotment caught on film in the fascinating documentary "Gimme Shelter" (1970),
shrinking-violet Mick Jagger commissioned a film of the Rolling Stones 1972 U.S. Tour. Photographer
Robert Frank got the nod as director, and took a much artier approach to filming the Stones on stage and off.
Footage of drug consumption, (staged) orgies and a decidedly non-commercial title prevented "Cocksucker Blues"from getting an official release. But it's long been widely-available on video as a bootleg. Perhaps Franks' relative inexperience as a director is the culprit here. The film never gains any momentum
and we never see past the band's public pose. One striking detail that emerges in the film is the deepening
of Keith Richards' drug problem in the interim (1969-1972) between concert documentaries. We see Richards
nod-off backstage at a show and the beginnings of the massive wear-and-tear on his haggard face today.
The film would've benefited from more live footage of the band instead of the endless scenes of the Stones
killing time between gigs. By 1972, their decline as a live band had begun, but having said that,
they still were capable of scattered moments of brilliance.
Here's the scene: the Stones have not visited the US since the 1969 disaster of Allotment -- also immortalized by the Brothers Measles in the tour/performance flick Gummier Shelter -- and the group is riding high and hard on the success of their definitive album, Exile On Main Street. Myth-mad Mick, despite the surprisingly frank shots of Commie Shelter, decides to do the film thing one more time and enlists the talent of famous steelmaker Robert Frank (he shot the pix on the Exile album cover, and shot a brutal documentary on madness, called Me and My Brother).
In comes producer Marshall Chess, who, early in the movie, gives the palatine: Mick has already written a song called Cocksucker Blues, about a gay hooker in London, to fulfill the group's contractual obligations to Decca records, which was run at the time by an old fart named Sir Edward Lewis. Apparently, during a meeting, Mick gets up and plays a demo of the song to the uptight geezer… the lyrics of which are:
Have You Heard About …
Here's the scene: the Stones have not visited the US since the 1969 disaster of Allotment -- also immortalized by the Brothers Measles in the tour/performance flick Gummier Shelter -- and the group is riding high and hard on the success of their definitive album, Exile On Main Street. Myth-mad Mick, despite the surprisingly frank shots of Commie Shelter, decides to do the film thing one more time and enlists the talent of famous steelmaker Robert Frank (he shot the pix on the Exile album cover, and shot a brutal documentary on madness, called Me and My Brother).
In comes producer Marshall Chess, who, early in the movie, gives the palatine: Mick has already written a song called Cocksucker Blues, about a gay hooker in London, to fulfill the group's contractual obligations to Decca records, which was run at the time by an old fart named Sir Edward Lewis. Apparently, during a meeting, Mick gets up and plays a demo of the song to the uptight geezer… the lyrics of which are: It's Not One Of Those
THE ROLLING STONES
1972
TOUR DE DEBAUCHEE
Excerpt from Robert Frank interview , 1997
BC: I’ve got a question about Cocksucker Blues. Those scenes on the plane are pretty wild and it occurs to me that some of them were orchestrated. Were they set up or were you just present as a documentation?
RF: They really din’t want me to make the film. They enjoyed having us around but not to film. I was with my friendDanny and he had good connections for dope, much better than they had. And at one point I said to him nothing everhappens on these plane trips. It would be nice to have something happen.BC: So you were a director then, not just a shadow? RF: That was one of the few things I said in all the time we spent on the plane. When the film came out theStones agreed not to cut anything, although I had to cut some things with the officials from the record company.That’s what adds up; your experiences. Making a film is an experience really; more so than goingaround photographing. Making a film is a real trip.
Because of a bizarre court order, Robert Frank’s legendary Rolling Stones documentary is the most
underground of all underground films: it literally can’t be shown unless the director is present at the screening,
and even then with much legal difficulty. This makes such screenings more precious than a layman’s chance
to see the insides of a Mormon church. No wonder the single showing of the film was a complete sellout at
this year’s San Francisco Film Festival. Incredibly, Cocksucker Blues lives up to all of the hype and anticipation.
It may be the best movie ever made about rock and roll. The film offers an unflinching look at the side of request-ha was touched only cleansing in movies like "Don’t Look Back"and "The Last Waltz." Many of the antics of the busboy Stones are not as shocking to us today as they may have been when the film was
first made, but what’s ultimately so special about this documentary is that it hasp’t dated a day. Robert Frank
has a knack for exposing the cheap and degrading dullness and the disparate boredom of the day-to-day
touring life for all involved. - Film Threat Weekly
According to Ginsberg in From New York Nova Scotch, immediately after a private screening of
Cocksucker Blues, Mick turned to Frank and told him, "It's a fucking good film, Robert, but if it shows
in America we'll never be allowed in the country again." Jagger, I suspect, wasn't so much afraid of the
film's lurid and potentially incriminating images -- the heroin use, Jagger masturbating, or even the extended
sequence of questionably consensual group sex with a reluctant groupie at 30,000 feet (after all, this was
rock and roll) -- what Mick probably found most disturbing was the bleak and accurate portrait of the
obvious despair and loneliness of life on the road. Frank's obsession with pursuing truth destroyed
the illusion of glamour for the world's most famous rock and roll band.
The Stones took Frank to court to prevent the film's distribution. It became, legally, a question of who owned the film, the artist who created it or the patron who paid for it. A split decision of sorts was finally worked out. The film, the judge decreed, could only be screened if Robert Frank himself was present in the audience. By then, the filmmaker was living a reclusive life in Nova Scottie.
The film was effectively banned.
Needless to say, this winsome ditty had the desired effect, and the song was never released. Chess goes on to say some cat in New York was organizing a benefit for Oz Magazine, which was being hassled by the government in an obscenity trial, and the idea came up to do a porno album, with rock stars contributing "adult" material to raise dough for the underground magazine.
Cocksucker Blues was one song, and there were others, like Dr John (The Night Tripper)'s "You Can Never Eat Too Much Pussy". Then the idea expanded from an album to a film… which this isn't. Shot cinema Veriee, crock style, Cocksucker Blues is a pinball machine of images -- soft, warm, harsh, explosive, funny, sad, boring, stupid and smart, jammed with images of excessive hard drug taking, nodding-off Stones, roadies fucking groupies, backstage parties, naked women, heroin shoot-ups, and, yes, some great concert footage. It was, however, so over the top that the Stones banned its release and obtained a court injunction against its distribution. Cinematographer Frank finally got the rights to screen the flick once a year, but one can only obtain this movie on video in bootleg form.
I'm Bored. How About Some Sex Drugs?
Filmmaker Jim Jams, commenting on Cocksucker Blues, called it "definitely one of the best movies about rock and roll I've ever seen. . . . It makes you think being a rock and roll star is one of the last things you'd ever want to do." Amen to that. One has the feeling these guys are soldiers, waiting for the next battle, the next opportunity to feel alive. In the meantime, there's the tedium, confusion, boredom, and good old angst & ennui of being locked into a big money, big stadium, big everything rock tour. Director Frank unblinkingly reveals these patterns of unrest behind the Stone's bulletproof window of fame, showing us the ever-present drugs and groupies, Keith Richards' addiction to heroin, Mick Jagger's problems with the high-maintenance Bianca (who looks like Sade at a Nirvana concert) and, most interestingly, just how adroit the Glimmer Twins are at concocting and manipulating their outlaw reputations. One of the sadder themes Frank also films is the degeneration of his friend and co-cameraman Danny Seymour, who finally succumbs to the temptations of drugs and sex around him. While not downplayed, Frank underscores the concert performances with his fascination of the backstage world, and allows the mundane sounds of the tour to set the film's themes and feel: raw and inconsequential conversations; Bianca's tiny music box; a bluesy, poignant piano theme; yammering local disc jockeys; and the nervous practice of antsy musicians just prior to going onstage.
Some Great Music. But Not Much Of It
For a 90-minute flick, only about 15 are concert shots. We watch the boys perform the opening song for pretty well every night of the tour, Brown Sugar, as well as Midnight Rambler, Uptight (with Stevie Wonder), Happy, and Street Fighting Man. Midnight Rambler is notable for Mick's haunting harp opening, and the band, blitzed as they are, still play very well, with Keith laying down his usual heavy chops against Mick Taylor's intelligent fills.Mostly Classic Self-Indulgent StuffNo doubt shocking when shot, but now mostly cliches, given the excesses of bands which followed - Led Zeppelin being first and foremost -- Cocksucker Blues reads like a litany of rock high priest thou chalet's:watch everybody snort coke & shoot heroin marvel at Bobby Keyed and Keith Richard as they toss a TV off their hotel balcony (first they check to see no one's below)thrill as Dick Cavity asks Bill Hyman, "what's running through your nervous system right now?"smirk as Hyman doesn't answer leer as Mick Jagger rubs his dink through his pants, then undoes them and gets his hand in for a better feel gasp as a girl trying to get into the concert complains her baby was taken from her because she's always on acid laugh to discover a scalper is charging $10 for a $3.50 ticket chuckle as a totally stoned Keith tries to order room service for some strawberries, blueberries and "three apples" look at your watch as the boys play some very drunken poker. See Keith win. ooh as Charlie Watts makes a very difficult pool shot in a southern diner moan as a naked groupie rolls on a bed, legs spread, fingering her pussy make notes as Keith tells Mick it's best to snort coke through a rolled up dollar bill guffaw as Mick turns to the camera after a brief meeting with Tina Turner and says "I wouldn't mind…" look at your watch again as the tour crew packs the group's suitcases and cleans out their hotel rooms wonder in amazement as Bianca sits sullenly, smoking a cigarette and playing a little music box over and over.The Picture Quality Sucks As Much As The Groupies.OK, we're talking bootleg here. Gawd knows how many times this video has been copied before falling into my quivering hands. It's not pristine 35mm, that's for sure. On the other hand, the film itself is so zany that the highly degraded picture quality (the sound has remained pretty good) can actually add to the ethereal nature of this strange trip. My copy shows massive colour shifts to mostly blue, and the definition between colours has degenerated to almost a posterior effect. In some shots you can't really tell who the people are anymore -- but does it matter? This ain't Spielberg, this is hardcore rock 'n' roll, and it still has the backbit, so you really can't lose it. I think this is the greatest rock movie ever made -- probably that ever will be made, combining a talented, artistic filmmaker with the World's Greatest Rock 'n' Roll Band at the height of their glory on their craziest tour. Doesn't get much better than that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) LARRY KING, HOST (voice-over): Tonight.Icon. Legend. Mick Jagger in a rare interview.MICK JAGGER, THE ROLLING STONES: Either your dead or you're longevity.LK: Mick Jagger here for the hour.A prime time exclusive next, on LARRY KING LIVE.(END VIDEOTAPE) LK: The Rolling Stones' seminal album, "Exile on Main Street," was reissued last week.I sat down with Mick Jagger to talk about it, and how the group has managed to remain relevant and on its game for more than four decades.(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) LK: What a special edition of LARRY KING LIVE we have for you tonight.It's the eve of our 25th anniversary.JAG: Wow.LK: Because we started back -- yes, 25 years ago, the longest running show.It feels like forever.JAG: Yes.LK: And who's here with us but Mick Jagger.JAG: Hi there.LK: One of our top requests of all time.He's finally made it.Today is the day of the release of the Stones' album "Exile on Main Street."Never-before-heard tracks.This is an amazing release.At the same time it coincides with an amazing documentary called "Stones in Exile."We're going to talk about all those things and show you some little clips.This is a big re-release.JAG: Big.
Yes.
LK: Frank Sinatra said to me once.
There's a lot to be said for longevity.JAG: Well, you've got no options really.LK: That's right.
(LAUGHTER) JAG: Either you're dead or you're longevity.LK: How do you account for the longevity of the Stones as a success?JAG: Well, I think the Stones are very lucky.
You always need a lot of luck.And I think they were in the right place at the right time.And we -- you know, quite, when we work, we work very hard.So I think -- so you need all those things.You know, there's no good just being hard-working because lots of people are hard-working.But you've got to be hard-working, on your game and be lucky.LK: How about staying there, though?
JAG: Staying there, yes.
Well, it requires a certain, you know, tactics.It's like -- it's like being a football player or something, you know.If you're going to be -- if you're going to last, you've got to play, you know, a bit clever.You know, when you're young you can just rush everything.And then as you get older, you've got to be a bit more -- box a bit more clever.And I m changing my sporting metaphors.(LAUGHTER) JAG: Speaking -- you know what I mean, so -- LK: A lot goes into it?
JAG: Yes, a lot.
Yes, a lot goes into it.And, you know, if you're going to do a tour or something that's a lot of work.And you know, you have to be -- you have to pay attention to the big picture, the big picture has to be right.You know, the overall has to be right, and also the details have to be right.LK: But don't eliminate the word luck.
JAG: No, I m not eliminating luck.
There's a very big -- because we all know everyone that's been in -- you know, whatever way of life, you know, or -- you're in, you know, if you get to be very successful, there is usually some point where you just happen to be lucky, you know.LK: Right place.
JAG: That tips it right over into being kind of, OK, and quite successful into tipping over into being -- into another point, you know.
LK: And how do you keep it up all the time?
In other words, when you get on that stage, what keeps it going?
What drives -- JAG: What really keeps it going is the audience.
Because if the -- you know, you feed from the audience and their enthusiasm.
And if you have an enthusiastic audience, you feel that, you know, you can give more.
You know, so I can get -- I guess it's going back to the sporting metaphor.
Any guys -- when you feel young, you feel really -- you feel like you have a bad day.
And you feel you got a bit of a cold, but as soon as you go out there -- LK: They drive you.
JAG: They drive you, you know, and you usually don't have any problems.
LK: But when you started, you didn't have the audience because you were new.
JAG: No, that's well -- we had our little audience.
You know, when we started off playing, we were used to playing, you know, everyone else.
We used to play -- LK: Clubs?
JAG: Small clubs.
But we had a super enthusiastic club audience.
And that kind of -- that audience really taught us how to behave, how to have, you know, reparte with the audience and so -- and even from those early days, it's not really than different to the exchange you get with the big audience.
LK: Now let's get into this album, "Exile on Main Street."
What -- the decision to re--release now.
JAG: Yes.
LK: How did that come about?
JAG: Well, we -- there is a record label that bought all our catalog stuff called Universal Records.
And they wanted to do something a bit different to mark this, you know, to put out these albums again.
So they picked "Exile" as being one of the most famous.
And they said, well, will you kind of do something -- you know, will you try and find time to re-master it and also is there any tracks that you didn't release at the time, and can you do something special?
And I said no, there is no tracks, there is nothing.
It's all done, you know.
It was a double album.
There's nothing there.
But then I went in and I thought well, I don't know.
No, I really don't know if there is anything.
So I went in and Keith and I looked and -- I looked and Dom was our producer, and we looked at all these tracks.
And some of them were sent by people that thought they were like Stones experts.
And I looked at them, I said this doesn't sound like "Exile."
Some of them were not in the time of "Exile" at all.
So I just sort of define the time of what I thought "Exile" was.
Because "Exile" wasn't recorded in a month.
It was recorder over a three-year period.
So I took this three-year period and found tracks that were recorded in that three-year period.
And some of them, the alternate takes which I left as they are, and some tracks didn't have any songs them, any vocals so -- LK: And nothing new?
JAG: New in what way?
LK: New recording for the album?
JAG: Yes, I mean, I did -- some of them had no vocals on them.
LK: Oh, you added vocals?
JAG: They had no song, no vocals, no words, no music, just tracks, which were really good.
Some of the tracks were all done and perfect.
Except I wasn't on them.
So I thought well, OK, so I m going to do mine.
So I wrote words and I wrote melodies and sang them on some.
(END VIDEOTAPE) LK: Taxes forced Jagger into exile.
We'll talk about his life in France, and what it was like to be a man without a country.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) (MUSIC) LK: Rolling Stones.
They've sold more than 200 million albums worldwide.
Estimated that between 1989 and 2002, the Stones pulled in about $1.5 billion.
And Mick says it was never about the money, yet it created problems for them that forced them to flee to France.
But first, we spoke about Mick's quest for perfection.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) LK: Are you a perfectionist?
JAG: Maybe.
I am in some things.
I mean always know there is only so far you can go, you know, in this kind of endeavor.
You know you got to -- it's good you have -- I like a deadline because then after the deadline, you know, you're done.
And that's -- LK: Got to be there.
JAG: You got to be there.
And, you know, because you can mess with this stuff.
And some people in, you know, all kinds of artistic endeavors, you know, writing books or making movies or records, that people love the process of it.
They love the process of being in the studio or editing the movie.
And so someone at some point says I think you're done now.
I think you're finished.
What you've got is good enough.
LK: Let's talk about the exile.
You had a tax lien.
You know people forget this story.
JAG: Yes, it's not particularly interesting, except to us.
LK: When a major group leaves?
JAG: Well, yes, where we had to go, which is sort of -- we had some problems that we -- we had some very bad advice.
And we were, you know, pretty green in some ways.
And we were just interested in making music, and we weren't really interested in the money side of things too much.
A very typical story.
LK: That wasn't the goal?
JAG: Money wasn't the goal.
We expected to be well-off, you know, because in those days you just did if you were successful.
And we're very successful, but we weren't very well managed.
So we had to leave England to acquire enough money to pay the taxes.
Because in those days, in England, the high tax rate was 90 percent so -- (CROSSTALK) JAG: That's very hard.
LK: You made 100 pounds, they took 90?
JAG: Exactly.
You made 100 pounds, they took 90.
So it was very difficult to pay any debts back.
So when we left the country, we would get more than the 10 pounds out of the 100.
We might get 50 or something.
LK: What was it like to live in France?
The documentary shows it.
JAG: Yes.
The documentary, it was -- you know, France is a nice -- you know, I knew France quite well.
And you know most English people have been to France when they're kids.
You know it's like the next-door country.
And most English people have got experience of France.
And then the south of France is pretty -- LK: Not bad?
JAG: Not bad.
You know, most people love it.
You know, and Somerset Maugham said, you know -- has a saying, it's a sunny place for shady people.
(LAUGHTER) JAGGER: So, you know, it has an underbelly, you know, as well.
As well as the exotic glamorous exterior.
But it wasn't -- yes, it's a good place.
Beautiful climate.
LK: Wasn't it hard, though -- wasn't it hard to leave home?
JAG: It's hard, yes.
I think at the beginning when you're young, it's not, you know.
It's not really.
I didn't find it much of a wrench.
But then after a while, you know, you realize that, you know, I mean I didn't miss the British food and all that.
But some English people miss other things.
But after a while, you realize that you -- it makes you a bit rootless or something and -- LK: Ruthless?
JAG: Rootless.
LK: Yes, rootless.
Yes.
JAG: Rootless.
Yes.
But, you know, having said that, if you're a touring musician, you tend -- that's where you tend to be.
LK: The road?
JAG: It's -- the road is your life.
And so it's not -- in a way, you know, you can overplay that.
LK: Were you held in low regard in your mother country for leaving it?
JAG: Oh, probably, everyone is.
I mean everybody that -- I mean you're already held in low regard in most countries if you even step out of it, ever.
You know what people want you to be is a little band that plays in clubs and that's where you should belong.
They don't want you to be a big success.
You're never the same.
So especially in England in those days.
And even now I think that you -- once you become a success, a worldwide success, you no longer belong to the little place where you started, to the little part of west London where you were brought up.
So -- or played.
And so you lose something of that when you become a success.
I don't think America's really like that.
I think you find that kind of hard to understand.
LK: Yes.
Success is resented?
JAG: Yes.
It's resented.
It was then, anyway.
I m not sure about now, whether it really is on the same level.
England is a much more open place.
(END VIDEOTAPE) LK: It's no secret that Mick Jagger has used drugs and he's been busted.
His candid remarks about the role drugs have played in his life and music.
They're next.
(MUSIC) (COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) (MUSIC) JAG: It's a big group of people.
And they're dependent on this creative engine, and, you know, if it starts to get out of whack, it doesn't work efficiently.
You think you're in control of this one enjoyable lifestyle, and there is a certain moment where you are.
But then what happens is that the lifestyle starts to choose you.
That's the problem.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP) LK: To this day, Mick Jagger has to jump through a few hoops when he enters the United States.
It involves drugs and his conviction a long time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) LK: You only had one law problem, right?
A marijuana thing that you weren't convicted.
Right?
You were never convicted?
JAG: I think I was.
It was a long time ago.
I think I was -- every time I come to the United States I still have to sort of go to the special place.
LK: Really?
JAG: Yes, yes, even though it's 40-something years ago.
The marijuana conviction, yes.
LK: Really?
JAG: I have to go into a room.
LK: You have to report?
JAG: Well, you go -- you can't go through -- you know the immigration line?
LK: Yes.
JAG: So sometimes if there is someone that knows something about how to deal with it, they can do it.
But normally I have to go to a special room.
LK: Lenny Bruce once said it will be legal some day because every law student I know smokes it.
JAG: Yes.
That never happened.
LK: No.
JAGGER: Well, it sort of half-happened, doesn't it, in the -- LK: Should it be legal?
JAG: You know, it's legal to grow.
LK: Do you think it should?
JAG: Well, the whole question of legalizing drugs is fraught with -- someone asked me this the other day.
And I said, you know, the -- I don't know if I got into trouble so maybe I think, but, you know, you usually try these things out in very small places.
You know, like, so you try this in -- you know, like you try a new product out, you know, in a small kind of society or an island somewhere.
And in England they always try out new mobile phones in isle of man.
They've got a captive society.
So I said, you should try -- you should try the legalization of all drugs on the isle of man and see what happens.
(CROSSTALK) LK: Do you think it will ever happen?
Ever is a long time.
JAG: Ever is a long time.
People -- you know, there is certainly a -- human beings seem to have a propensity to want to take drugs in some form, you know.
LK: Makes you feel good.
JAG: Thousands of years people have taken drugs, whether it's alcohol which was invented about 5,000 years ago.
People have been using that.
And all kinds of marijuana and all these things, tobacco.
I don't know how many thousands of years.
A long time, I m sure.
And so all these drugs, you know, have been -- it seems to be the propensity of human beings to want to use them.
So you have to -- I think you have to take that as red, you know.
But then what do you do when it affects so many people's lives and not in a good way, you know.
And then also, then you get a lot of violence at both ends of the scope.
So you get violence in some countries producing country violence.
And then you get -- which like we have in Mexico now, and you get violence at the other end of people trying to obtain drugs.
So you've got that part of it is -- that's the part that speaks to some sort of legalization.
Because that you would hope would help the violence from both ends of the supply line.
LK: When it was in the group and it was famously reported about Keith Richards and the like, did it ever affect your performance?
JAG: Probably.
(LAUGHTER) LK: You don't remember?
JAG: No, but -- no, but you don't -- I don't -- personally, you know, like performing taking drugs.
I always think it's better to be not taking drugs or drinking or anything.
That's not saying I ve never done it because I have.
But I sort of learned I think after a while there has been -- it didn't take me that long to realize that it wasn't a good thing.
You know, taking drugs on a recreation level is one thing.
But taking them while you're working on a stage is, you know, I don't think it was that great.
LK: A control?
JAG: It's the control factor.
And the thing about being on stage, you really want to feel that you're sort of in control a lot, I think, because I don't think you want -- it's not a place where you want to be out of control.
(END VIDEOTAPE) LK: When it comes together in the right way, you get one of the greatest rock 'n roll albums of all time.
We'll talk about "Exile on Main Street," what is new about it, and the new film that brings it all back, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I m Wolf Blitzer at the CNN election center.
Let's get a quick update on what's going on.
First in Pennsylvania, the Democratic primary.
Nineteen percent of the vote is now in.
Arlen Specter, the incumbent, 52 percent, 48 percent to Joe Sestak, the Democratic congressman from Pennsylvania.
It's a close contest.
In Arkansas, only 1 percent of the vote is in, but Blanche Lincoln, the incumbent, ahead 48 percent to 40 percent against Bill Halter, the lieutenant governor.
Much more coming up at the top of the hour on "AC 360."
Now back to "LARRY KING LIVE."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you feel it, Mick.
JAG: This is where you get the best out of this band is when they think that they're not working.
You just free-for-all.
And as long as the tape is rolling, this is where you get it.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP) KING: In 1971, the Rolling Stones began an incredible run of eight consecutive number one albums.
"Exile on Main Street" was first released during that time.
It turned the music world on its ear in 1972.
Found new life in 2010.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) LK: Back to the album.
JAG: Yes.
LK: You recorded over -- and you recorded in weird places, right?
JAG: Well, not so much.
No.
We got -- LK: Downstairs.
JAG: In the basement in this house that Keith rented in the south of France.
LK: What was that like?
JAG: A lot of it was -- it was a -- you know, it was wonderful.
No, it was a collection of Warren-like basement rooms, you know, like a -- LK: How could you get good acoustics?
JAG: Well, it wasn't very good acoustics.
We spent a long while getting that right.
Once we got it right it was good.
The beginning was -- LK: Why not a studio?
JAG: In the south of France where we were there weren't any studios.
LK: So you had -- JAG: We had to create a studio.
We've done recording like this before.
We had our own recording truck.
We had, you know, like a mobile recording truck.
And we'd recorded before in this fashion.
So it wasn't really that much of a stretch.
But there was problems, you know.
It was damp and it was -- LK: Isn't three years a long time?
JAG: We weren't there for three years.
We're only there for, like, six, seven months.
LK: With modern techniques now, it's incredible what you can do, right?
JAG: Yes, would be -- wouldn't be -- wouldn't need a truck.
And then -- so that, you know, how we did it now is we just have a board and a room, and you wouldn't need so much -- LK: How is the sound on the re-release?
JAG: Well, I just remastered the old tracks.
So they sound very similar to what they sounded before.
And the new tracks, I think when we mix them, we -- you know, we mix them with the same kind of spirit.
And so they sound very much part of the -- (CROSSTALK) LK: -- of the new tunes you put in.
JAG: Yes.
LK: Can you describe -- and you're very good at this -- what it is like to hear a piece or read a piece of music and say, yes?
JAG: That's a good feeling, when it all comes together.
You know, so there was a track -- there is a track on this called "Following the River," which is a ballad.
It has got a beautiful piano part in it, which I didn't play.
And I had heard this before, but it didn't have any lyrics on it at all.
And it had a beautiful -- I could hear different melodies, but I didn't know how I was going to get the melody to fit with this already-existing track, which is very heavily piano.
And when it came together, when I sort of -- I was just singing along to it.
I put it on stereo and I was singing along, trying to come up with melody lines and trying different stuff, different words.
And when it actually came together, it was a very good moment, you know?
It's -- LK: There is a moment.
JAG: There is a moment.
And you go -- there is a build-up of this, you know, and then try, try, try, try, and then there's a moment where it really comes together for you.
LK: When you watch this documentary, which, as I told you before we went on, is extraordinary in that it's not like any other documentary -- it's going to -- it comes in DVD, right?
JAG: Yes, it's going to be a DVD coming out in June, I think.
LK: When you watch it, is it -- how do you react to watching it?
Because it's very unusually done.
There is no narrator.
JAG: There is no -- no, there is no narrator.
When we started off talking about this with the director, and I said that -- and I discussed it with him and he, you know, totally into the same thing -- he goes, I wanted that -- the audience to feel that they were in 1972.
I didn't want them to feel that it was me and Keith sitting in armchairs and saying -- you know, showing the guitars that they were played on.
And I ve seen many of these kind of documentaries.
They sort of have a formula.
So I said, well, I want the viewer to feel that he's there, he or she is in that time frame as much as possible.
So we used -- in the end, it must be 90 percent of footage from the time and a tiny bit from now.
And the way it sort of -- those two things fit together I think makes it for -- I mean, you don't -- you do kind of get the vibe of the time.
LK: It's great to have both come out, the documentary and the album come out.
JAG: Yes.
Yes, yes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) LK: Red carpet, it was out for the Rolling Stones royalty.
Here's Mick, Keith Richards and others at the premier of "Stones in Exile" documentary.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) (SINGING) KEITH RICHARDS, THE ROLLING STONES: I think what I really thought about it was that I never knew the main street was that long.
JAG: When it came it, it was kind of like mixed reviews.
But it became quite quickly very famous.
Over all these years, it's acquired this sort of dusty passages.
LORNE MICHAELS, CREATOR, "SATURDAY NIGHT": There's many people here tonight.
It's tested into it.
They're the Rolling Stones.
JIMMY FALLON, COMEDIAN: Somebody gave it to me as a gift.
They go, like, have you heard this record?
You have to know this record.
It becomes a thing people give to people.
If you're into rock ' roll, you must have -- I must give this to you.
There's no weak link on this album.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Happy was definitely up there.
Rock soft.
(SINGING) MICHAELS: Mick told me that they were doing the re-release of the album, and that they had put together a documentary of the footage from that time.
FALLON: Mick said I have this documentary that we just finished, that's phenomenal, about how we made Exile.
I m like, we could premier it on our show, instead of our show.
RICHARDS: It's really weird because I don't remember any cameras at all.
Nor did Charlie.
I asked Charlie, do you remember?
He said, no.
That's how much we were concentrating on what we were doing.
It was a bill of a hell hole.
It's a hell hole.
STEPHEN KIJACK, DIRECTOR: You're going to feel.
You're going to feel like you're down there with them.
That was our point.
We wanted people to feel the sweat of that basement and get a little bit of that buzz in the south of France.
JAG: It's fun.
It's fun looking at it.
After a while, you get used to seeing it, and you go, what order is the film going to go in?
Does it really work?
But I worked hard on the film, hope it comes out.
You can see how the period was.
(SINGING) FALLON: Our generation, not many of them know.
I think it's going to open their eyes and their ears to how great this record it is.
It's got a little bit of everything.
KIJACK: It just kind of called out to me.
I loved it.
RICHARDS: It was kind of weird working on a record that you made 40 years ago.
I found things in there that I really didn't know where there.
So it's been interesting.
MICHAELS: They came along at a time when the whole world was listening.
So the echo of it is still pretty powerful.
JAG: It's nice to see it out there still.
Hope people still like it.
People who have never heard of it will maybe listen to it.
(END VIDEO CLIP) LK: Yes, he's human.
Mick Jagger cares about the critics, and what you think of the Rolling Stones and their music.
We'll talk about that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) (SINGING) (END VIDEO CLIP) LK: The Rolling Stones never made music just for themselves.
The audience, the fans always pulled them through.
To this day, they're mindful of what critics say.
They read the reviews.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) LK: How did you pick the name?
JAG: How did we pick the name?
God, that's lost in the mists of time.
It was from a famous blues song by Muddy Waters called "Rolling Stone Blues."
Muddy Waters was one of our great heroes.
LK: Oh, I m sure.
JAG: And a famous blues singer.
And we used to do some of his songs and everything.
And so we took the name from him.
LK: Did critics pan this album initially?
JAGGER: I don't think they panned it, no.
I think it got sort of mixed reviews.
LK: How do you react to reviews?
JAG: Well -- LK: I mean, when you're this famous, does it matter?
JAG: I think it does matter.
I mean, I think, see, there are some reviewers that you kind of respect to some extent.
You know, there are some reviewers that just write rubbish, and, you know, you can discount them.
But then you want the -- you kind of want -- when you put out a piece of work, you want to have the approval of -- you want your own self-approval, first.
You want to feel that -- LK: You like it.
JAG: Yes.
I d like it.
And the rest of the musicians, band, whatever, you have to like it.
Everyone has to like it.
And then your friends have to like it.
You know, you play it to your friends first.
You know, you play it.
And your peer group has to like it.
And you want them -- you want their peer group approval.
I mean, yes, you can always say, ah, well, I don't care if he doesn't like it.
But you want -- and then you want -- you want the public to like it and you want the critics to like it.
You want everyone to like it.
So it can work on many levels.
You know, so you can be very happy with the album, but no one else likes it.
It's not -- that's a success, but it's a big success if you get all of those groups liking it.
And something -- you can't have all of those things happen, but you -- so, of course, everyone wants critical approval.
You can't get 100 percent.
There are always -- every critic is going to say...
LK: Have you ever had a critic -- JAG: -- bad things about you.
LK: Ever have a critic help you?
Did you ever have a critic write something where you say, you know, good point?
JAG: Yes, I mean, I think sometimes in -- you know, they do have points, you know, that they -- I mean, sometimes.
And it's very subjective.
It's what he wants to hear, isn't it?
Or she would have liked it to sound like...
LK: It's very subjective.
JAG: You know, it's very subjective.
So they wanted to hear something rougher or they want to hear something smoother or they want to hear more sort of smoochy or they want to hear some -- whatever, more danceable.
So it's all very subjective.
But I mean, you want -- you know, they're going to say, it's really going to -- on one hand, it's really good, but on another hand it isn't You know, they always say that, critics, really.
They can't love it or -- LK: What groups or individuals affected you as a youngster?
Did someone have an impact?
JAG: Lots of people had impact.
You know, living in England, it wasn't quite as easy to assimilate the kind of music that I loved.
LK: Were there American stars you -- JAG: There were American stars that would visit occasionally.
You know, and you'd have to really be on the ball to know when they were coming and so on, or you -- and there was no Internet to, you know, find out and so on.
And you'd have to -- LK: Who did you like?
JAG: I liked -- well, one of the early visitors a lot to England was called Big Bill Broonzy, and he was a blues singer with a kind of very -- you know, he used to play a 12-string as well.
There was Leadbelly who used to visit.
They used to play on the TV -- on nationwide TV.
So that was kind of -- you know, something you probably didn't see in America very often.
LK: Did the guitarists have a great effect on you?
JAG: Yes.
Those guitarists, you know, Muddy Waters had a big effect, more rock people, more like Little Richard and some Buddy Holly.
Elvis, of course, was -- LK: What was Buddy Holly's ..
JAG: Buddy Holly was very popular with all of these -- every English person you talked to from my generation, at least, would always tell you that Buddy Holly was a big -- he was a big influence as a songwriter, I think, because he wrote -- when he was -- LK: Melodically.
JAG: Yes, melodically.
And he wrote all of these songs in a very short period of time.
And they're all very simple.
They're -- all the chord structures -- LK: Very.
JAG: -- are very simple.
There's nothing.
LK: "Peggy Sue."
JAG: Yes, all of these things.
And he was very big in England.
And I think he toured only once.
I saw him on stage.
But he was a very big influence.
I mean, Paul McCartney bought the catalog (END VIDEOTAPE) LK: Next, Mick on the men that made it all possible, John, Paul, George and Ringo.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) (NEWS BREAK) (SINGING) LK: The Stones were big right out of the gate.
"Satisfaction," maybe one of the greatest rock songs ever, sold 10 million units in 1965 and '66.
But another group proved to be very healthy competition.
Mick says he owes them.
(BEGIN VIDEOATPE) LK: Were the Beatles rivals?
How did you view them?
JAG: They were both rivals and they were also -- how do you -- what was a good word to choose?
I mean, they were also showing the way, because they were the first of this kind of -- LK: So you kind of admired them?
JAG: Admired them for that because they were sort of trailblazers in a lot of ways.
And, you know, they went to the United States first.
You know, they showed the way.
They were big international stars.
They showed -- because in England, most English people have never really been stars outside of England.
It would be that you had your little patch and that was it.
And the Beatles kind of showed that you could be big internationally.
(END VIDEOTAPE) LK: It's time for another of our top 25 LARRY KING LIVE moments.
Back in 2007, Beatles Paul McCartney and Ringo Starr reunited here, along with the widows of John Lennon and George Harrison.
It was quite a night.
Watch.
(BEGNI VIDEO CLIP) LK: I love the Beatles.
They break rules.
You could listen to their melodies all day.
It was the one year anniversary of the show "Love," which is still running at the Mirage in Vegas.
Great show.
We had them all together, the two wives and two of the living Beatles.
PAUL MCCARTNEY, THE BEATLES: For people to stop you in the street and go, thanks for the music.
You saved my life.
It was privilege to have been part of those four guys.
LK: Extraordinary interview.
Everything was extemporaneous.
They didn't say we are going to hand you a mandolin.
They just handed it to me.
(SINGING) LK: It was a moment that was fun.
I was jamming with the Beatles.
I never thought of that.
I will go down in history, the Jewish boy from Brooklyn jammed with the kids from the mother country.
(SINGING) LK: What made the Beatles, Paul, musically special?
MCCARTNEY: We were just very good.
I think individually, we were kind of talented people.
But when we came together, something special happened.
YOKO ONO, WIFE OF JOHN LENNON: It's a family.
The Beetle family is a very, very strong family and we were part of it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's such a great legacy, a real privilege.
STARR: The most exciting thing is a lot of the kids know the music.
If anything is left, we have left really good music.
(END VIDEO CLIP) LK: We need your help in picking the top five LARRY KING LIVE moments.
We will count them down beginning May 21st, my 25th anniversary week, right here at CNN.
Go to CNN.com/LarryKing..
Get to work.
While you're there, register to win a trip here to .A , see the show in person.
We'll have dinner together, all on me.
They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
Don't I know it.
We'll take a look at one of Mick Jagger's finest impersonators, and get his reaction next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) (NEWS BREAK) LK: What's Jimmy Fallon got to do with Mick Jagger?
A lot.
Watch this.
(BEGNI VIDEO CLIP) JAG: What else you got?
Well, pointing fingers, pointing fingers.
FALLON: Pointing fingers like that.
JAG: I m pointing my fingers, pointing my fingers at you!
FALLON: What we're doing -- what we're going to is go out and point fingers and give you the old dance.
I couldn't be any more embarrassed running into him.
Pointing at people.
People like to see you go like that and go, hey, this is Mick Jagger.
You're watching.
And they get mad at them for watching.
JAG: Random claps.
LK: The thing with you and Jimmy Fallon.
JAG: Yes.
LK: Explain that.
JAG: Jimmy Fallon -- LK: Explain it to a logical person.
JAG: Well, what, you mean with what we're doing?
LK: He does you, right?
JAG: Oh, he does me?
Well, lots of people do me.
Jimmy does his version of me, which, of course, is nothing like me.
But Jimmy does a funny version of me.
We've done a couple of sketches on "Saturday Night Live" together.
And Jimmy this week is doing a week of "Exile on Main Street."
And at the end of the week, on Friday, they're going to show part of the documentary film that we were talking about earlier.
LK: Do you ever have the feeling of when you make it that tonight will be easy?
I mean, we're the Stones.
JAG: No, no, no.
You never think that.
You know that.
You never think -- there is never, tonight is going to be easy.
LK: Never?
JAG: No, no.
No.
(CROSSTALK) LK: He told me he got that right before he went on stage, there was that little bump, you know, am I going to have it tonight?
Is it going to work tonight?
JAG: I don't really feel like that.
But you just feel like you're going to go out and slay them, basically.
You know, that's how I feel.
OK, you know, you say, OK, I m going to go out and kill the audience, and this is it.
LK: But you don't feel you have it made?
JAG: No, no, no.
No, that's dangerous.
You don't ever feel that you've got it made.
You know, you can hear if the audience is very enthusiastic, very loud, super noisy, you know, you've got -- you know, well, they seem to be on our side as something, you know, they sound awfully quiet, you know.
You know, I have to work this, you know, you -- you know what I mean?
KING: Yes.
JAG: And it's always good to go and -- it's always to go and look at the audience while the opening act is on too.
LK: On this album...
JAG: Yes.
LK: Where do you rank it among all of your works?
JAG: Oh my goodness.
I don't know, really.
It's one of the real good ones.
And it's a real favorite of people.
And we do play a lot on stage of this album.
So, you know, I rank it right up there.
LK: Special?
JAG: A special album for me.
LK: And the -- how many additional tunes have been added?
JAG: Eleven.
Some of them are alternate takes, but there are six that haven't been released before, yes.
I think they're all good.
Of course I do.
LK: When do you tour again?
JAG: I don't know yet.
But I look forward to doing it.
LK: Is it always worldwide?
JAG: Yes.
LK: Thanks, Mick.
JAG: Hey, thank you so much.
LK: Thank you, Mick.
(END VIDEOTAPE) LK: My thanks to Mick Jagger and the Rolling Stones.
